【讨论】关于AINULINDALE一章（水支翻译的《茜玛丽尔的传说》）(页 1) - 托尔金专区 - 龙骑士城堡奇幻论坛奇幻文学,翻译,原创,龙与地下城

Darkmage 发表于 2004-5-29 06:54

【讨论】关于AINULINDALE一章（水支翻译的《茜玛丽尔的传说》）

今天跑去看水支翻译的SILM第一篇，以下是我认为可商榷的部分，我自己的英文也不好，所以仅仅是讨论。时间不够，只看了AINULINDALE。水支在这里的翻译区的原帖已经找不到了，文章在主页上，那么我就贴这里了： 翻译： <a href='http://www.cndkc.org/eFiction/viewstory.php?sid=121&i=1' target='_blank'>http://www.cndkc.org/eFiction/viewstory.ph...php?sid=121&i=1</a> AINULINDALE 1。 Then again Ilúvatar arose, and the Ainur perceived that his countenance was stern; and he lifted up his right hand, and behold! 耶路瓦塔尔第二次起身，埃奴们感觉到他的面容严厉起来，他抬起他的右手，不可窥瞻。 Ilúvatar arose a third time, and his face was terrible to behold. 耶路瓦塔尔第三次起身，神情骇人，不可窥瞻。 to behold 难道是“不可窥瞻”？ 2。 In the midst of this strife, whereat the halls of Ilúvatar shook and a tremor ran out into the silences yet unmoved, Ilúvatar arose a third time, and his face was terrible to behold. 音声的争战中，耶路瓦塔尔的殿堂摇晃了，那颤动直传入依旧无动于衷的虚空的宁静里。耶路瓦塔尔第三次起身，神情骇人，不可窥瞻。 “依旧无动于衷的虚空的宁静”……默……觉得是“尚未被撼动的沉寂”。 3。 And it essayed to drown the other music by the violence of its voice, but it seemed that its most triumphant notes were taken by the other and woven into its own solemn pattern. 它试图用它的狂暴喧嚣淹没另一首乐曲，可即使它最得意张狂的音符，也只能跟随另一首乐曲的调子，被它编入乐音织就的庄严图画。 be taken不是“跟随”的意思吧。 4。 And thou, Melkor, wilt discover all the secret thoughts of thy mind, and wilt perceive that they are but a part of the whole and tributary to its glory.' 而你，摩尔寇，尽管你头脑中可发现的和可察觉的隐秘念头委琐不堪，仍是全世界的一部分，并成为世界荣耀的附庸。” 哪里来的“委琐不堪”？而且这句的意思是“而你，摩尔寇，将发现和意识到你头脑中所有隐秘的念头是整体的一部分，从属于整体的荣耀。” 5。 and he went forth from the fair regions that he had made for the Ainur; and the Ainur followed him. 他离开他为众埃奴造出的金色王国前行，众埃奴在后追随。 the fair regions=“金色王国”？…… 6。 ……and in every age there come forth things that are new and have no foretelling, for they do not proceed from the past. 在每个年代总有全新和未知的事物降生，它们不是从过去延续下来的。 遗漏了for “因为……”。 have no foretelling 翻译成“未曾预言的”比较准确？ 7。 Ilúvatar chose a place for their habitation in the Deeps of Time and in the midst of the innumerable stars. 耶路瓦塔尔于时间深谷（Deeps of Time）中和数不清的繁星下为子民选择了一处作为他们的居所 应该是“繁星中” 8。 And this habitation might seem a little thing to those who consider only the majesty of the Ainur, and not their terrible sharpness; as who should take the whole field of Arda for the foundation of a pillar and so raise it until the cone of its summit were more bitter than a needle; or who consider only the immeasurable vastness of the World, which still the Ainur are shaping, and not the minute precision to which they shape all things therein. 对那些只考虑埃奴的伟大而没留心他们的极大狭隘的人来说，此一居所似乎微不足道，在那些人看来，应该把整个埃达当作一个方尖塔的座子，把那塔升得高高的直到顶端的锥点比针还细。那些人只想着世界之无限广大，却不知埃奴还在加工，而且他们在那儿做出的东西并不是完美无误的。 感觉这个整段理解错了。terrible sharpness似乎是“极端的精锐”？take the whole field of Arda for the foundation of a pillar 似乎是“把整个埃达当作一根柱子的基础”，还有“塔”也不对，那明明是个pillar。 and not the minute precision to which they shape all things therein.似乎是“而不是他们在那里塑造的一切的精准入微”…… 9。 and their hearts rejoiced in light, and their eyes beholding many colours were filled with gladness; 他们的心中光明欣喜，他们的眼睛看到了许多充满欢乐的色彩 似乎是“他们的心在光明中欣喜，他们看到了许多色彩的眼睛中充满着欢乐。” 10。 别的埃奴看着这居处在世界里广阔的空间中建立起来——精灵管这儿叫埃达，大地（Earth）——他们的心中光明欣喜，他们的眼睛看到了许多充满欢乐的色彩；只是因为海洋的咆哮他们才感到一种巨大的震荡不安。他们观察到风和空气；观察到组成埃达的元素，铁、石头、银、金和各种物质；但所有东西中他们最赞赏的是水。照埃尔达人所说，在水中流转的埃奴之乐比在地球上（Earth）别的任何物体中的都多，许多耶路瓦塔尔的子民倾听过大海的声音，却不知道他们听到的是宏乐（Music）。 同一个Earth在一段里出现两种翻译。 11。 and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. 许多耶路瓦塔尔的子民倾听过大海的声音，却不知道他们听到的是宏乐（Music）。 still unsated 被遗漏了。 12。 And Ilúvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools..." 耶路瓦塔尔转向乌尔默，说：“看到了吗，在漫长的岁月里里摩尔寇在你的王国中所发动的战争？他想出了严寒，然仍不能摧毁你的粼粼喷泉和我的清澈水池的美丽" the Deeps of Time 前后文都是“时间的深谷”，这里变成了“漫长的岁月”。 beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools: （仍然不能摧毁）你的喷泉美景，和我的明澈池塘。原文没那么多辞藻吧。 13。 And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manw&euml;, thy friend, whom thou lovest.' 你的艺术画出的这些云彩啊，都和曼威密切相关，他是你的朋友，你最爱的那一个。 thou art drawn =“你的艺术画出”……倒…… 14。 and it seemed to them that in that moment they perceived a new thing, Darkness, which they had not known before except in thought 一瞬间他们察觉到一个新的东西，黑暗，之前只在思想中的他们还不了解的东西 我的理解是“似乎是在那一瞬间，他们察觉到了一个新的事物，黑暗——一个过去他们只想到过但并不了解的东西。” 15。 And some have said that the vision ceased ere the fulfilment of the Dominion of Men and the fading of the Firstborn; wherefore, though the Music is over all, the Valar have not seen as with sight the Later Ages or the ending of the World 有人说幻象是在人类统治大地、初生者渐渐凋零时终止的，因此，尽管宏乐全部演完，梵拉却没看过新世纪（Later Ages）或世界末日（End of the World）的景象。 似乎是“有人说前景是在人类统治大地完成、初生者退隐前终止的”，“尽管the Music包容万物”。 16。 Thus it came to pass that of the Ainur some abode still with Ilúvatar beyond the confines of the World;but others, and among them many of the greatest and most fair, took the leave of Ilúvatar and descended into it. 如此时光流逝，有些埃奴依旧在世界的边界外和耶路瓦塔尔相伴，而其他人，他们中最伟大和最美丽的，和耶路瓦塔尔告别，降临到了世界上。 这个it不是指“时间”， it came to pass 更不是“时光流逝”的意思。but others, and among them many of the greatest and most fair 应为“但是其余的和耶路瓦塔尔告别，降临到了世界上，他们中不少是（Ainur）中最伟大最俊美的。” 17。 For the Great Music had been but the growth and flowering of thought in the Tuneless Halls, and the Vision only a foreshowing; but now they had entered in at the beginning of Time, and the Valar perceived that the World had been but foreshadowed and foresung, and they must achieve it. So began their great labours in wastes unmeasured and unexplored, and in ages uncounted and forgotten, until in the Deeps of Time and in the midst of the vast halls of Ea there came to be that hour and that place where was made the habitation of the Children of Ilúvatar. 原来宏乐虽成，但在大家未能和谐一致的大厅里，精神的生长繁荣和那幻象都仅仅是一个预兆。现在他们在时间的源头处进入埃雅，众梵拉所知的世界只在想象和预言之歌中存在，他们必须去完成它。他们开始了伟大的工作，在时间深谷和宇宙大厅里显现出可供耶路瓦塔尔之子民居住的时空之前，未知和不测常让他们徒劳无功，花费的时间也不可记数。 第一句似乎是“原来宏乐还只是在沉寂之殿中，思想上的生长与繁荣，而前景也仅仅是一种预示。” 这里的tuneless，我不太确定，但我觉得是“无音乐的”，而不是“不和谐的”。 第二句里So began their great labours in wastes unmeasured and unexplored, and in ages uncounted and forgotten，我认为是“于是他们在不可衡量和探测的荒芜中开始了伟大的劳作，耗去的光阴难以记算，早已被遗忘；直到……” 18。 When therefore Earth was yet young and full of flame Melkor coveted it,and he said to the other Valar: 'This shall be my own kingdom; and I name it unto myself!' 因此大地年轻而充满烈炎，他对其他梵拉说，“这将成为我的王国，由我自己来给它命名！” 觉得应该是“当因此大地还年轻，充满了烈火的时候，Melkor觊觎它，他对其他Valar说：“这将是我自己的王国，我宣布它属于我！” 19。 And the Valar drew unto them many companions, some less, some well nigh as great as themselves, and they laboured together in the ordering of the Earth and the curbing of its tumults.Then Melkor saw what was done, and that the Valar walked on Earth as powers visible, clad in the raiment of the World, and were lovely and glorious to see, and blissful, 梵拉召来许多助手，一些次于他们，一些和他们差不多强大。他们在一起为大地的次序和规范工作。摩尔寇看到了这些完成的工作，梵拉们以可见的王者的姿态在大地上徜徉，身着古老典雅的衣饰，看上去可爱亮丽、幸福无比…… of its tumults被遗漏 clad in the raiment of the World是“身披着世界之装”而不是“古老典雅的衣饰” glorious =“亮丽”……觉得“光辉灿烂”比较好…… 20。 And he descended upon Arda in power and majesty greater than any other of the Valar, as a mountain that wades in the sea and has its head above the clouds and is clad in ice and crowned with smoke and fire; and the light of the eyes of Melkor was like a flame that withers with heat and pierces with a deadly cold. 他以更胜其他梵拉的力量和权威降临到埃达上，他象一座大山，山脚深深没入海中，山顶直插云天，山上覆盖着万年冰雪，黑烟和烈火是山的王冠。摩尔寇的眼里射出光芒，酷热似火，严寒如冰。 觉得是“他以更胜其他梵拉的力量和权威降临到埃达上，犹如一座涉过大海的山峦，头颅高过云端，遍身寒冰覆盖，浓烟和烈火围绕着他的王冠”。后面的“withers with heat and pierces with a deadly cold”是形容那个“a flame”，而不是说他眼里的光芒。 21。 and amidst the innumerable stars. 无尽星空下 和前面一样应该是“在无尽的繁星中”。

水支发表于 2004-5-29 10:22

<img src='http://www.cndkc.org/bbs_en/html/emoticons/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif'> <img src='http://www.cndkc.org/bbs_en/html/emoticons/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif'> <img src='http://www.cndkc.org/bbs_en/html/emoticons/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif'> 是的是的 这个东东当初第一遍初稿以后就没有再多改了，错误肯定很多，后来又想已经出正版或者即将出正版所以…… 爬回去改—— （以前都没有人来提过错——其实就是没人看八……） （今天终于有了——终于有人看了，T_T）

Darkmage 发表于 2004-5-29 23:15

那么我就继续贴了 <img src='http://www.cndkc.org/bbs_en/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> 翻译： <a href='http://www.cndkc.org/eFiction/viewstory.php?sid=123&i=1' target='_blank'>http://www.cndkc.org/eFiction/viewstory.ph...php?sid=123&i=1</a> 以下勘误是朋友做的，从21开始的说明是我写的。 Chapter 2 Of Aule and Yavanna 1．奥力非常渴望子民（Children）的降生，他希望能有可以让他传授他的知识和技能的学生，他不愿耐心等耶路瓦塔尔（Ilúvatar）的设计完成。 For so greatly did Aule desire the coming of the Children, to have learners to whom he could teach his lore and his crafts, that he was unwilling to await the fulfilment of Iluvatar. Children子民？fulfilment of Iluvatar 耶路瓦塔尔（Ilúvatar）的设计完成，“设计”是哪里来的？而且这句应该有因果关系For so greatly did Aule desire the coming of the Children的For没有翻译出来。 2．奥力就是按他们现在这个样子来创造矮人的，因为第一他也不太清楚将至的子民的模样，第二摩尔寇（Melkor）的势力遍布中州（Middle Earth），所以他希望矮人有足够的强壮和坚韧。 And Aule made the Dwarves even as they still are, because the forms of the Children who were to come were unclear to his mind, and because the power of Melkor was yet over the Earth; and he wished therefore that they should be strong and unyielding. “奥力就是按他们现在这个样子来创造矮人的”这句中文很奇怪，他不是按照现在这个模样来创造矮人的，而是现在的矮人还是他最初创造的模样。 3．但他怕其他梵拉（Valar）责备他，所以他在私下秘密地做了这件工作。在中州大山脚下的洞厅内，他做出了矮人的先祖七父（Seven Fathers）。 But fearing that the other Valar might blame his work, he wrought in secret: and he made first the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves in a hall under the mountains in Middle-earth. 但他怕其他梵拉（Valar）责备他这项“工作”， mountains不是“大山”是“群山” 4．“你只从我这儿得到了你应有的那一份天赋，没有再多的了，所以你手和你脑造出的生物只能是这样一种存在” “For thou hast from me as a gift thy own being only, and no more; and therefore the creatures of thy hand and mind can live only by that being” 这句完全理解错了，这里指奥力的能力和存在本身是被耶路瓦塔尔所赋予的，而他创造出来的东西，也只能限制于他的存在。所以下面说，只有在奥力的操纵下矮人才能行动，其本身没有行动能力。 5。“我就象一个孩子，他对该怎样去模仿他父亲的高明是一知半解，却依旧会这么做，并不觉得有任何可笑之处，因为他是他父亲的儿子。” And the child of little understanding that makes a play of the deeds of his father may do so without thought of mockery, but because hs is the son of his father. 这句话，有一半是理解错误：“高明“不知道是哪里来的；may do so 指的是父亲会有的行为，不是“却依旧会这么做”； without thought of mockery 不是“并不觉得有任何可笑之处”而是指，没有嘲笑的意思。 6．“那么我这样做，您就不会永远生我的气了吧？作为我父亲的儿子” but what shall I do now, so that thou be not angry with me for ever? As a child to his father but what shall I do now的意思是：我现在该怎么做呢，不是“那么我这样做”； As a child to his father也不是“作为我父亲的儿子”的意思，而是：作为一个孩子对他的父亲。 7．“您要毁了他们吗？但我真的不愿假设我的劳作就这么被毁掉了啊！” do with them what thou wilt, but should I not rather destroy the work of my presumption 这句完全是错的。do with them what thou wilt的意思是：你可以按自己的意思处置他们，不是“您要毁了他们吗？”the work of my presumption指：我虚构/幻想出来的作品，不是说“我真的不愿假设” 8.“既然在世界之初我就给了奥力创造生物的思想，那么现在我就承认你的渴望，给它一个恰当的位置。” Even as I gave being to the thoughts of the Ainur at the beginning of the World, so now I have taken up thy desire and given to it a place therein. Even as不是“既然”而是“就如”， I gave being to the thoughts of the Ainur不是说“我就给了奥力创造生物的思想”首先，Ainur不单指Aule，另外thoughts of the Ainur不是“创造生物的思想”，这里指Ainur也是由他（Ilúvatar）的思想创造出来的；given to it a place therein不是“给它一个恰当的位置”而是一块生存之地。 9. 他们象石头一样坚硬和坚定，团结一心，一致对敌 they are stone-hard, stubborn, fast in friendship and in enmity stubborn不是“坚定”而是“顽固”， fast in friendship and in enmity不是“团结一心，一致对敌”而是：对友情和仇敌都很坚定（俺也不会说，意思指他们当谁是朋友，谁是敌人都很顽固，难改变。） 10. 耶路瓦塔尔将使他们变得圣洁并在末日（End）给予他们相配于子民（Children）的地位。 Ilúvatar will hallow them and give them a place among the Children in End. 俺不确定hallow应该怎么翻译，不过，give them a place among the Children是指的地位嘛？还是指在Children中间给他们一席之位。 11. 矮人还说矮人的先祖七父会在他们的后代中以他们古老的名字重生。 They say also that the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves return to live again in their own kin and to bear once more their ancient names 这句俺觉得是错的，这里的意思更象说矮人七父会在他们的亲族中重生，再次得到他们古老的名字，而不是说他们用古老的名字重生。 12. 最后他向雅梵娜（Yavanna）倾诉了他的想法，告诉她一切都已经完成了。 But at last he opened his mind to Yavanna and told her of all that had come to pass. told her of all that had come to pass不是“告诉她一切都已经完成了”而是：告诉她一切的经过 13. “实际上也确实如此吧，你不仅仅获得了原谅，还获得了慷慨地赠予。“ as indeed it may; for thou hast received not only forgiveness but bounty as indeed it may不是“实际上也确实如此吧”而是：确实应该如此 14. “如果摩尔寇没有染黑他们的心灵，他们就不会那么冷酷自大。” Not unless Melkor darken their hearts 那个“他们就不会那么冷酷自大”是怎么演绎出来的？ 15. “我就不可以创造一个不受其他生灵支配的自由的种族吗？” shall nothing that I have devised be free from the dominion of other? 不对。I have devised指已经创造出来的，不是说又去创造。这句是：就没有一种我创造出来的东西可以免于其他生灵的控制嘛？ 16. “如果你可以，你想保护哪一样？”曼威说，“你所造的每种生灵不都是你的最爱吗？” “If thou hadst thy will what wouldst thou reserve?” said Manwe. “Of all thy realm what dost thou hold dearest.” 後一句完全是错的。意思是：在你所有的地域中，什么是你最爱的呢？ 17. “每个生灵都和其他的分享它的益处。” And each contributes to the worth of the others 这句不知道算不算错，但是，contributes to the worth of the others感觉上不是分享益处，而是说每个都互相分享，互有贡献。 18. “除了会叹息它们再无法给予那粗大树干上的果实以外，几乎无人为它们的死哀悼伤心。” unless they pay toll with fruit upon bough little mourned in their passing 感觉上意思是：除非他们的枝干可以生出果实，否则很少有人会为他们的死哀伤；而不是说，那些人叹息，拿不到果实。 19. “然而歌中已经唱到它了，” Yet it was in the Song Song大写，指的不是普通的歌，而是前面的大乐章，希望能突出一下。后面这样的翻译还有几处。 20. 曼威开始静坐，雅梵娜的思想进入他的心灵，开始成长和展现，于是耶路瓦塔尔便看见了这些思想。 Then Manwe sat silent, and the thought of Yavanna that she had put into his heart grew and undolded; and it was beheld by Ilúvatar. 前半句里是"had put"，也就是说Yavanna的思想之前就存在于Manwe内心。后半句有些不清楚，好像说Ilúvatar之前没看到Yavanna的想法，这才看到了，其实，这里的it不是Yavanna的想法，而是Manwe目前的状况。 21. 最后，幻象更新了，但也不是变得奇怪，因为在幻象中他仍是他自己，只是他看到了所有耶路瓦塔尔之手所举起的一切，那手伸了进来，从手上呈现出许多新奇之物，许多此前对他这一颗埃奴的心隐藏起来了的事物。 And at last th Vision was renewed, but it was not now remote, for he was himself within it, and yet he saw that all was upheld by the hand of Ilúvatar; and the hand entered in, and from it came forth many wonders that had until then been hidden from him in the hearts of the Ainur. 这句完全错了。应该是：“最后，前景更新了，但是这次它并不遥远，因为他自己就身在其中，不过他还是看到一切都被Iluvatar之手举起，那手伸入前景，带来许多之前都藏在众Ainur内心而他却不知道的奇妙事物。” 22. 然后曼威醒了，他走下来和雅梵娜一起登上埃泽罗哈（Ezellohar），他坐在她的旁边，他们坐在双神树（Two Trees）之下。 Then Manwe awoke, and he went down to Yavanna upon Ezellohar, and he sat beside her beneath the Two Trees. 这里好象是说Manwe走下来，来到Ezellohar上的Yavanna那里吧…… 23. “有哪个梵拉在猜测，猜测那时我没有听到全部的歌声，没有听到最后一曲中最后的声音？” Do then any of the Valar suppose that I did not hear all the Song, even the least sound of the least voice? “Valar中有谁认为我没有听到the Song的全部，哪怕是最轻微的声音中最轻微的声响？” 这里不是last是least啊…… 24. 灵体穿过克尔瓦和奥尔瓦，有些便居于其中，成为被尊敬的生灵 they will go among the kelvar and the olvar, and some will dwell therein, and be held in reverence. 这里我认为是“它们将在kelvar和olvar之间穿行，有些定居在它们之中，广受尊敬。” 这里好象是说那些spirits居住在动物和植物之间，并不是说它们附身在动植物上啊。 25. 在他们受到威胁时发出正义的怒火。那个时刻，是初生者仍有力量的时刻，是次生者还年青的时刻。 And their just anger shall be feared. For a time: while the Firstborn are in their power, and while the Secondborn are young. 前句是说“他们正义的怒火将是可畏的”…… 26. 他们已经不记得了你的思想并没有独自歌唱吗？ But dost thou not now remember, Kementari, that thy thought sang not always alone? 好象是“但是你现在难道想不起来了……”吧？ 27. 在子民觉醒之前，西方之君（Lords of the West）的大鹰（Eagles）的翅膀就已翱翔天际，你所希望的一切也会和这一样得到耶路瓦塔尔的关注的。 That also shall come to be by the heed of Ilúvatar ,and before the Children awake there shall go forth with wings like the wind the Eagles of the Lords of the West. 应为：“那会在Iluvatar的关注下实现，在子女觉醒前，西方之君的大鹰们将展开如风的羽翼到来。” 28. 曼威也站了起来，他是那样高大，他的声音被风送下，传给了雅梵娜。 But Manwe rose also, and it seemed that he stood to such a height that his voice came down to Yavanna as from the paths of the winds. 这里最后是说Manwe对Yavanna说话的声音犹如风般从天而降，不是“被风送下”。

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龙骑士城堡奇幻论坛's Archiver

【讨论】关于AINULINDALE一章（水支翻译的《茜玛丽尔的传说》）